Difference between revisions of "Pinecil Power Supplies"

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== Power Supply Compatibility ==
This article is about compatible power supplies for the [[Pinecil]].
=== [https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Pinecil Go back to Pinecil Wiki]===


=== Pinecil works with several power options: ===
== Power Options for Pinecil ==
# any USB-C power supply that supports PD (Power Delivery) that is same or more than minimum Volt/amps listed (PD65W-20V recommended, but PD45W will work on V1).
# DC barrel 12-21V battery or power supply using a DC 5525 (5.5mm outer diameter, 2.5mm post) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DBTNplNTfA '''center-positive polarity'''].
# V2 can do DC barrel supply up to 24V without modyfying the PCB (check polarity, must have center-positive jack).
# QC3.0: not recommended, too weak, unless it has 3 Amps or better. Most QC power supplies have low amps are only able to provide at most 12V 1.5amp, limiting Pinecil to about 17W of thermal capability which is weak and slow and may get "Thermal Runaway" message (weak power causes auto-shutdown). QC2.0 chargers are not supported. QC is even more problematic for V2 which has the 6.2ohm resistance tip versus the V1.


* USB-C PD type power supply / power bank that is 20V+/65W, allows the Pinecil to deliver the full 60W of heat to soldering tip.
=== Overview ===
** USB PD type power supplies with at least 20V+/65W+/3amp+ is highly recommended (higher V/W/A will work too as long as it's PD type).
** Magnetic tip USB-C cables are not recommended, and not USB compliant
* Troubleshooting QC chargers: some QC power adapters only allow a limited time for QC negotiation, otherwise voltage will fall back to 5V.<br>
** To address this, starting from firmware v2.16+, there is a PD timeout setting (in 100ms steps) which allows QC negotiation to start earlier. Change this only if you are having issues with your QC charger. (Power Settings > PD timeout)<br>
** This enables some QC adapters to work (i.e., some Baseus QC chargers). Alternately, lowering the number may result in problems with PD negotiation on some PD type adapters that are slower to negotiate. If you switch between QC & PD adaptors, you may have to change this setting.
** For certain QC adapters, lowering the PD timeout value to 15 could help, and most PD adapters will also still work using 15. If a PD charger does not work at 15, then increase the timeout (PD defaut is 20 = 20x 100ms = 2 seconds). Note that some QC chargers simply will not work, are too weak, or cheaply made.


{| class="wikitable"
# Using a power supply that is at the higher end of the Voltage/Amps requirements will give faster heating and performance.
|-style="background-color:LightYellow"
# Any USB-C power supply that supports PD (Power Delivery) and has at least the minimum Volt/amps listed should work. The USB-C PD65W, 3.25A, 20V is recommended, but a lower PD45W will also work on V1.
| '''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DBTNplNTfA Check correct polarity]''' of DC Barrel plug before plugging in a random charger or it could break the Pinecil.
# Also, any quality "center positive" DC barrel 12-21V battery or power supply using a DC 5525 jack (5.5mm outer diameter, 2.5mm post) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DBTNplNTfA see Video on '''center-positive polarity''']. It is sometimes better to get a pre-used name brand laptop brick Dell/Lenovo/HP etc., over a cheap brick which could have voltage spikes that damage the Pinecil or other electronics.
|}
# V2 can handle a DC barrel supply up to 24V without modifying the PCB (always check polarity, must be a center-positive jack).
# Any typical tool battery 18V-21V will work, see the [[#Tool_Batteries_18V-21V| tool battery section]] for details.
# QC3.0 phone chargers: not recommended, it is weaker in power and does not auto-negotiate like USB-C PD does. QC3 requires manually setting the voltage in the Power settings. A minimum of 3 amps is needed and many QC phone chargers are only able to provide a low 12V 1.5amp, limiting Pinecil to about 17W of thermal capability which is weak and slow. It may not even start to heat, but if it does, it may get repeated <code>Thermal Runaway</code> message (this means the weak power causes Pinecil to auto-shutdown continuously).
# QC is more problematic for V2 which comes with the Pine64 designed shorter 6.2 ohm resistance tip. This means the V2 needs more power than the V1. Switching to the longer traditional ts100 style tip in V2 would reduce the power requirement a little, but then you lose a small amount of heat speed/performance.
# Magnetic USB-C cables with removeable connectors are not recommended, and are not USB-IF compliant.


=== Small sample of working PD/QC/Barrel power adapters / power banks: ===
=== Troubleshooting QC chargers ===


This is a very small list compared to all the possible chargers that work, and new chargers come on the market all the time.  
# older QC2.0 chargers are not supported in IronOS firmware (only QC3.0 and PD type).
# Some QC power adapters only allow a limited time for QC negotiation, otherwise voltage will fall back to 5V. To address this, starting from firmware v2.16+, there is a PD timeout setting (in 100ms steps) which allows QC negotiation to start earlier. Change this only if you are having issues with your QC charger (lower the PD timeout to see if that will help QC charger work). (Power Settings > PD timeout)
# This enables some QC adapters to work (i.e., some Baseus QC chargers). Alternately, lowering the number may result in problems with PD negotiation on some PD type adapters that are slower to negotiate. If you switch between QC & PD adapters, you may have to change this setting.
# For certain QC adapters, lowering the PD timeout value to 15 could help, and most PD adapters will also still work using 15. If a PD charger does not work at 15, then increase the timeout (PD default is 20 = 20x 100ms = 2 seconds).
# Note that some QC chargers simply will not work, are too weak, or cheaply made (PD USB-C chargers are recommended over QC only type)


Sometimes you have to test it, as long as you do the following you should be fine:
=== How to Test if my charger will work? ===
* don't plug in something that is higher voltage than the official ratings for V1 or V2
* if using a DC barrel charger, check the Polarity first (must be center positive)
* use a good quality cable.
* if the Pinecil is too slow to heat up or gets Thermal Runaway message, then the psu is too weak, get something else.
* phone chargers are too weak if 12V 1.9amp or lower. QC 2.0 not supported by IronOS (only QC 3.0).
* most PC & laptop ports don't work as they are only 5V (good enough for simple Firmware update but not to provide the constant high power an Iron needs to run).
* check the specs on your laptop/PC port and charger ports, most of the time when it doesn't work, it's because the rating is very low on it and not designed to power an Iron (check specified Watts, Volts, Amps on the port and see if they meet the minimum needed by Pinecil).


As long as you do the following you should be fine:
# Don't plug in something that is higher voltage than the official ratings for V1 (21v limit) or V2 (24V limit).
# If using a DC barrel charger, '''check the Polarity first''', it must be center positive ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DBTNplNTfA see Video])
# Use a known good quality cable that will not short. There are low cost $3 cable testers that test for shorts.
# If the Pinecil heats up very slowly or gets <code>Thermal Runaway</code> message, then the charger is too weak, get something else.
# Phone chargers are too weak, most are only 12V 1.5 amps which is too low and prevent proper Pinecil operation.
# QC 2.0 not supported by IronOS firmware (only QC 3.0 and PD type).
# most PC & laptop ports don't work as they are only 5V which is good enough for simple Firmware updates but not to provide the constant higher power a "resistance" type of soldering Iron needs to maintain heat.
# Check the specs on your laptop/PC ports and charger ports, most of the time when it doesn't work, it's because the rating is very low on it and not designed to power an Iron (check specified Watts, Volts, Amps on the port and see if they meet the minimum needed by Pinecil).
== Cables, Chargers, Batteries ==
This is a very small list compared to all the possible chargers that work, and new chargers come on the market all the time.
=== USB-C Cables ===


==== USB-C cables ====
* Silicone USB-C cables are recommended if possible, they are more flexible and heat resistance. They do not melt or smoke if touched briefly with an iron compared with most other cords.
* Silicone USB-C cables are recommended if possible, they are more flexible and heat resistance. They do not melt or smoke if touched briefly with an iron compared with most other cords.
* These work with usb 20V chargers.
* These work with USB-C 20V chargers and have been tested with Pinecil.
# [https://pine64.com/product/usb-type-c-to-usb-type-c-silicone-power-charging-cable-1-5-meter-length/ silicone, 1-cable, PINE64]
** [https://pine64.com/product/usb-type-c-to-usb-type-c-silicone-power-charging-cable-1-5-meter-length/ silicone, 1-cable, PINE64]
# [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B096XWD2HG/   silicone, 2-pack cables, Inter9er]
** [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B096XWD2HG/ silicone, 2-pack cables, Inter9er]
# [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093GFBD2M   silicone, Anker, 1-cable]
** [https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803495408504.html silicone, Baseus]
** [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093GFBD2M silicone, Anker]
* EPR PD 3.1 USB-C cables (240W, 48V, 5A), needed for 28V, 140W PD3.1 chargers. Backwards compatible for all lower USB-C devices/chargers.
** [https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804967583894.html PD3.1 240W cable] (not tested yet, says it is silicone).
** The below cables have been tested to work, but are not silicone:
** [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B18R4T14 certified 240W+Low speed data] Club 3D (slower USB 2.0 480mb/ps data speed = 0.48G speed)
** [https://www.inter9ers.com/promotions certified 240W/40Gbps], highest USB-IF data speed, 40Gbps, USB 4 Gen3.
* USB-C to C cables have two important ratings: one rating is for the power, e.g. 240w/48V/5amps (PD 3.1) and the other rating is not related to power at all and refers to data speed for data transfer (USB4.0 or USB2.0). Faster USB4 is 40G and slower USB2 is 480 mb/s = 0.48G. Pinecil does not need high data speed which is more useful for data transfer between devices or quality laptop to monitor connections. The lower USB2 (480mb/s) is enough for Pinecil Firmware updates (all  USB-C to C cables typically come with at least minimum USB2 = 480mb/s data speed). Higher data speed cables work great for firmware updates, but will be a thicker cable which may make soldering and hand movement a little harder. There is a noticeable difference in the thickness of cables due to the extra wires and specs for 20G or 40G type cables.
 
=== USB-C Charger ===
==== Should I get a GaN type Charger? ====
 
* Sure, if there are two PD65 20V chargers that are similar in price, and one is GaN, this is generally a [https://www.kensington.com/news/docking-connectivity-blog/5-reasons-why-you-should-make-the-switch-to-gallium-nitride-gan-over-silicon-devices/#:~:text=GaN%20devices%20have%20lower%20cooling,costs%20than%20silicon%2Dbased%20devices good choice].
* Older style chargers could become dangerously hot, whereas GaN can stay cooler, even in a smaller size.
* If the GaN charger senses a potentially dangerous condition, i.e., overcurrent spikes, the chips are designed to go into a cycle-by-cycle sleep state, protecting the device. [https://www.ti.com/lit/an/snoaa15/snoaa15.pdf?ts=1677349470127&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252F Over current protection in GAN].
* The [https://pine64.com/product/pinepower-65w-gan-2c1a-charger-with-international-plugs/ PinePower Portable PD65] is GAN II (2nd generation GaN).
* Will Pinecil work with regular USB-C PD 65w 20V-3.25A chargers also? Yes, as long as it supports PD (power delivery protocol).
 
==== EPR PD3.1, 140W Chargers ====
 
# [https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804615629078.html Voltme 140W, 28V max]
# [https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804637111674.html Rocoren 140W, 28V max]
# [https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MLYU3AM/A/140w-usb-c-power-adapter Apple 140W 28V]
# [https://a.co/d/bEeltLE Anker 737 Power Bank] (only EPR battery on the market presently).
 
{{Info| a PD3.1 240W cable needs to be purchased if you want the full 28V performance. EPR PD3.1 chargers are backwards compatible and work for all USB-C devices. They do up to 28V on PD3.1 devices,e.g, Pinecil V2, and will do 20V and less for older USB-C devices that don't need as much power. Lower cables will also work but then the charger will only deliver a max of 20V.}}
 
==== PD3.0 65w 20V Chargers ====
 
[[File:USB C PD shared watts charger.jpg|400px|right]]
 
# [https://pine64.com/product-category/pinepower/ PD120w PinePower Desktop w/Grounded 3-pin plug]
# [https://pine64.com/product/pinepower-65w-gan-2c1a-charger-with-international-plugs/ PD65w GAN II Pinepower Portable Travel charger] (PD@20V)
# [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GK6QY1K Cirtek 65W charger 3-port]
# [https://a.co/4RLyqzN 65W 3-port charger]
# [https://a.co/d/5Ai1McE EfaithFix PD65W, 3-port]
# [https://a.co/1mhjg35 Ultra-thin Portable PD65w]
#* small flat, full 20V PD65W charger, works well with Pinecil
#* it may not as durable as bigger chargers as it has no thick insulation around it.
# [https://www.amazon.com/Charger-HTC-PowerIQ-Foldable-Charging/dp/B09F6HF28L HTC PD65W, 3-port black]
# [https://www.amazon.com/HTC-Charger-Compact-Foldable-MacBook/dp/B09J83YZ8M HTC PD65W, 3-port, white]
# [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087MD5MYH Amazon Basics 65W One-Port GaN USB-C PD 3.0]


* EPR PD 3.1 Usb-C cables (240W, 48V, 5A)
=== Battery Power bank ===
* Needed for 28V, 140W PD3.1 chargers
# [https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerCore-Portable-Charger-Compatible/dp/B09VPHVT2Z Anker 737 28V-140W EPR] (must use EPR-PD 3.1 240W cable if you want the full 28V, otherwise it will provide a lower PD20V)
# [http://beta.blitzwolf.com/-p-15.html Blitzwolf BW-P1 10400mAh QC2]
# [https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-80w-26800-mah-portable-charger-for-most-usb-c-laptops-black/6419522.p?skuId=6419522 Insignia 80W 26,800mAh NS-PWLB80]
# [https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07KRLRCDJ/ Intenso 7332330 Powerbank PD 10000 - External Battery PowerDelivery & QuickCharge3] - 10000mAh Powerbank, the Pinecil shows 12V and about 17W when heating up, using USB C PD (Red Silicone Pinecil cable)
# Marbero M87 30W PD 3.0
# [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charmast-23800mAh-Delivery-Portable-Compatible/dp/B08ML1PHB2 Charmast C2032 65W Power Bank], maximum power at 20V is only available from the IN/OUT USB-C port, the OUT USB-C port delivers only 12V.
# Baseus BiPow 10000mAh 18W PD&QC3.0
# [https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0B7438Q2Z INIU Power Bank 65 W 25000 mAh] - Make sure to use the 65W port


**
=== DC Barrel Power ===
** [https://www.inter9ers.com/promotions Certified EPR cable 240W/40Gbps] Coupon PINE64ONLY for $24 off backwards compatible works for all usb-C devices, This is Both Thunderbolt 40Gbps data transfer and power charging cable.
{{Note|'''Check the polarity''' of the DC Barrel plug before plugging in a random charger or it could break the Pinecil.}}


==== USB-C Power adapter====
[[File:AC adaptor polarity.png|350px]]


* [https://pine64.com/product-category/pinepower/ 120W PinePower Desktop w/Grounded 3-pin plug] (PD@20V)
[[File:Nintendo-center-negative.png|350px]]
* [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GK6QY1K Cirtek 65W charger 3-port] (PD@20V)
* [https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Cirtek-Compatible-MacBook-iPhone/dp/B09HKLXB1Z Cirtek 100W 4-port] (PD@20V)
* [https://www.amazon.com/Charger-HTC-PowerIQ-Foldable-Charging/dp/B09F6HF28L HTC PD65W, 3-port black] (PD@20V)
* [https://www.amazon.com/HTC-Charger-Compact-Foldable-MacBook/dp/B09J83YZ8M HTC PD65W, 3-port, white] (PD@20V)
* [https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MLYU3AM/A/140w-usb-c-power-adapter Apple 140W 28V, need to buy EPR PD3.1 cable separately] (PD@28V, PD@20V) works for all USB-C devices
* [https://www.amazon.com/gp/mpc/A1IOHY7DSV21KW?maas=maas_adg_85195
* Notebook AC Adapter HP L30757-002 (PD@20V)
* Notebook AC Adapter Lenovo ADLX65YLC3D (PD@20V)
* [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08T1P7ZRW Ankosen 65W USB C Charger for Mac Book and Laptop Fast Wall Charger, GaN PD3.0]
* [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087MD5MYH Amazon Basics 65W One-Port GaN USB-C PD 3.0]
* Charger Harbor SAIL01 65W Dual USB-C Power Delivery GaN PPS $12.99 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097CVQ868)
* Baseus GaN2 Pro Quick Charger 100W (CCGAN100UE) (PD@20V)
* Elecjet AnyWatt SQ, USB-C to Lenovo Square Slim-Tip Adapter 45W or 65W, used with a 65W Lenovo Supply (PD@20V, Pinecil shows 64W)
* [https://nekteck.com/products/nekteck-60w-usb-c-charger-gan-tech?tab=description Nekteck 60W with PD60 cable]


==== Battery Power bank ====
=== DC Laptop Brick ===
* [https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerCore-Portable-Charger-Compatible/dp/B09VPHVT2Z Anker 737 28V-140W EPR (must use EPR-PD 3.1 cable if you want 28V, otherwise it will be lower PD volts)]
* [http://beta.blitzwolf.com/-p-15.html Blitzwolf BW-P1 10400mAh QC2]
* [https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-80w-26800-mah-portable-charger-for-most-usb-c-laptops-black/6419522.p?skuId=6419522 Insignia 80W 26,800mAh NS-PWLB80]
* Baseus BiPow 10000mAh 18W PD&QC3.0
* [https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07KRLRCDJ/ Intenso 7332330 Powerbank PD 10000 - External Battery PowerDelivery & QuickCharge3] - 10000mAh Powerbank, the Pinecil shows 12V and about 17W when heating up, using USB C PD (Red Silicone Pinecil cable)
* Marbero M87 30W PD 3.0
* [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charmast-23800mAh-Delivery-Portable-Compatible/dp/B08ML1PHB2 Charmast C2032 65W Power Bank], maximum power at 20V is only available from the IN/OUT usb C port, the OUT usb C port delivers only 12V.


# Generally a center-positive laptop charger with more than 3 Amps and 19V-24V will work on Pinecil V2 ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DBTNplNTfA '''video to check polarity''']). Plugging in a DC barrel charger with the wrong polarity symbol on the back will break the Pinecil.
# '''Avoid Universal power supplies and cheap off-brand ones''' with low quality control. <tl_lim> said "try to avoid such universal power ...The output contains sharp voltage spike and can kill the Pinecil. There are already several cases reported by support team that Pinecils are damaged by such power supply."
# Read the 2 answers in [https://community.element14.com/products/manufacturers/keysight/f/forum/39013/what-is-the-effect-of-switching-noise this link] that give an idea of why using cheap DC power supplies could damage electronics due to switching noise/voltage spikes. Cheap DC bricks don't have all the extra protections needed, go through little quality control, and most have no certification stamps related to industry testing.
# DC5525 barrel plug will plug in directly (5.5mmm x 2.5mm) but if you have a different plug, there are many adapters to convert it to 5.5mm, 2.5mm (don't force a different plug into Pinecil, [https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=13237 it will Break the barrel port]), and possibly push back and break the positive pin connection inside Pinecil where the DC barrel attaches to the PCB.
# DC barrel 24V is supported on V2 (most V1 can only do a max of 21V unless a modification is performed to cut the trace to the Vbus and enable 24V safely (see [https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS/blob/dev/Documentation/DebugMenu.md#pd-debug-menu Ralim's IronOS DebugMenu for details])
# It is recommended to use a quality brand DC barrel charger. Often a used name-brand laptop charger (Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc..) that gets some QC testing is a better option than a no-name cheap DC barrel charger. The cheap ones might have large voltage spikes that are out of the 21V range for Pinecil V1 and 24V range of Pinecil V2 causing the Mosfet and Buck regulator to break.
#* These two parts are low cost and not too hard to replace if your Pinecil breaks from a poor quality DC charger (see [[Pinecil#Datasheets_for_Components| Datasheets section of the Wiki]] for links to get replacement chips]].
#* Members have experienced broken Pinecils after using low quality off-brand DC barrel chargers and had to replace both the Mosfet and Buck Converter. Sometimes it's just one part, but it's best to order a couple of both as they are usually under $0.35 each.


==== DC Barrel Power with center-positive polarity ====
=== Tool Batteries 18V-21V ===
{| class="wikitable"
|-style="background-color:LightYellow"
| '''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DBTNplNTfA Check the polarity of the DC Barrel plug]''' before plugging in a random charger or it could break the Pinecil.
|}


* DC 24V is supported on V2 (most V1 can do a max of 21V unless a modification is performed to cut the trace to the Vbus, and enable 24V safely (see [https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS/blob/dev/Documentation/DebugMenu.md#pd-debug-menu Ralim's IronOS DebugMenu for details])
[[File:Power_Wheel_Adapters_for_18-21V_Tool_Batteries.png|475px|thumb|right| [https://a.co/bo626Nk Power-Wheels adapter link] with Ryobi battery]]
* Generally any laptop charger with more than 3amps and 20-24V will work on Pinecil V2 ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DBTNplNTfA check polarity is '''Positive''' in the center] or you will break Pinecil).
* DC5525 barrel plug will work directly but if you have a different plug, there are many adaptors to convert it to 5.5mm, 2.5mm  (don't force a bigger plug into Pinecil, [https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=13237 it will break the barrel port]).


==== DC5525 Barrel with Tool Batteries 18V-21V ====
* Easy way: just get a Power Wheels adapter. They are made for different tool brands and get a DC5525 Pigtail wire.
* Easy way, get a 'Power Wheels' adaptor which are made for many brands and get a DC5525 Pigtail wire (can also 3D print an adaptor).
* [https://www.amazon.com/Hobbypark-Connector-Soldering-Outdoor-Repairing/dp/B08LKY5DBX DC5525 pigtail] (keep the XT60 connector or cut it off)
* [https://www.amazon.com/Hobbypark-Connector-Soldering-Outdoor-Repairing/dp/B08LKY5DBX DC5525 pigtail (keep the XT60 connector or cut it off)]
* Get a Power Wheels Adapter [https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B09GXBJMNF like this for Ryobi], then splice/connect it to a DC5525 Pigtail to complete connection to Pinecil.
* [https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B09GXBJMNF Get a Power Wheels Adaptor like this for Ryobi, then connect a DC5525 Pigtail]
** Other kinds of [https://smile.amazon.com/stores/page/F3CF7FFA-3021-4014-AA81-E214F6F7CEDC?ingress=0&visitId=485f97ee-6a92-43e8-aaef-479873fccd6f Power-Wheels Adapters here] (Ridgid, Milwaukee, Makita, etc).
* [https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Battery-terminals-Connector-Robotics/dp/B09GY21VXL Adapter for Ridgid batteries]
** [https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Battery-terminals-Connector-Robotics/dp/B09GY21VXL Adapter for Ridgid batteries]
** Some people print their own 3D adapters for tool batteries (if they don't want to pay the $11-$13 for "Power Wheels" adaptor).
** Must use a 5.5mm x 2.5 mm DC barrel Plug. Forcing an an incorrect size, i.e., DC 5521 will break [https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=13237 the connector as seen here] (if it doesn't go in, it doesn't fit).
* If you use a random DC barrel charger, first Check the Polarity of the plug to make sure it is Center Positive before using it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DBTNplNTfA (how to check polarity)]. Using reverse polarity DC plug will destroy the Pinecil.


* To prevent battery overdrain, add this Pinecil setting which works for all the 18-21V tool batteries typical for Dewalt, etc.. Some tool brands have the overdrain protection already; it doesn't hurt to also set this in Pinecil or in case you don't know if your brand/type has it or not. <code> Power source = 5S, Minimum Voltage = 3.3V </code>
* Hint: only if you change to a different size battery do you need to alter this. If you only ever switch between a USB-C charger and the tool battery, you could just leave the 5S/3.3V setting. Overdrain means using the battery past the point where you can charge it again. Many tool batteries have internal protection to prevents this, but some brands don't have it (unfortunately, unlike most brands, Dewalt puts it into the tool & not the battery). Setting it in Pinecil is an extra safety setting in case you are not sure and want to preserve batteries.


'''Limited usability:'''
'''Limited usability:'''
* Nintendo Switch AC Adapter (USB-C wall-wart) (PD@15V)
 
* Notebook Docking Station HP Thunderbolt Dock 230W G2 (PD@20V)
* Nintendo Switch AC Adapter USB-C (PD@15V). Does not work well on V2 (needs 3+amps). Works on V1, but slower heat speed because it's low amps and only 15V. Not all Nintendo brand chargers are USB-C type. Some have a DC barrel plug with an incorrect center pin positive, see notes/photo above for checking any DC barrel power supply before plugging it into Pinecil. Reverse polarity chargers will break electronics as they were made to only be used with specific equipment they were sold with.  This is one added danger of using unknown/untested DC barrel jack charger over a USB-C charger.
** (had problems with lower firmware versions, but works fine Pinecil firmware: 2.15 and DockingStation firmware: 1.0.69.1)  
* Notebook Docking Station HP Thunderbolt Dock 230W G2 (PD@20V) (had problems with lower firmware versions, but works fine Pinecil firmware: 2.15 and DockingStation firmware: 1.0.69.1)
* Smartphone Charger Samsung EP-TA20EWE (QC2@9V)
* Smartphone Charger Samsung EP-TA20EWE (QC2@9V)
* Smartphone Charger Google Pixel G1000-US (PD@9V)
* Smartphone Charger Google Pixel G1000-US (PD@9V)
* Notebook AC Adapter Delta Electronics ADP-65JH BB (DC@19V) and ADP-90CD DB (1.7x 4.8mm need adaptor, tip is not DC5525)
* Notebook AC Adapter Delta Electronics ADP-65JH BB (DC@19V) and ADP-90CD DB (1.7x 4.8mm need adapter, tip is not DC5525)
* Notebook AC Adapter LITEON PA-1700-02 (DC@18.5V, 65W) (tip is 1.7mmx5.5mm would need adaptor for DC5525)
* Notebook AC Adapter LITEON PA-1700-02 (DC@18.5V, 65W) (tip is 1.7mmx5.5mm would need adapter for DC5525)
* Nillkin 63W USB Car Charger Quick Charge 3.0 PD (Pinecil Firmware: 2.14.2425902)
* Nillkin 63W USB Car Charger Quick Charge 3.0 PD (Pinecil Firmware: 2.14.2425902)
** QC3@9V/12V and PD@15V work, PD@20V doesn't
** QC3@9V/12V and PD@15V work, PD@20V doesn't
** PD@20V works fine when using PDC004-20V or ZY12PDN on dc jack (DC@20V, limit: 45W)
** PD@20V works fine when using PDC004-20V or ZY12PDN on dc jack (DC@20V, limit: 45W)


'''Not compatible:'''
==== Not compatible ====
 
* Zendure Power bank like [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P8NRNX7 this one] does not work. It does not appear to be USB-C PD 3.0 compliant. Only the USB-A port seems to work at lower QC voltage. It does not deliver USB-C 20V-5amps or USB-C 20V -3amps.
* Smartphone Charger RAVpower 30W Dual USB Turbo Wall Charger (Should provide QC3@9V/12V, but only provides 5 V on both ports)
* Smartphone Charger RAVpower 30W Dual USB Turbo Wall Charger (Should provide QC3@9V/12V, but only provides 5 V on both ports)
* Sabrent HB-B7C3 USB3 hub, 7 data ports, 3 charge ports, 60W supply -- does not negotiate higher voltages.
* Sabrent HB-B7C3 USB3 hub, 7 data ports, 3 charge ports, 60W supply -- does not negotiate higher voltages.


==== [https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Pinecil Go Back to Pinecil Wiki]====
== Go back to Pinecil article ==
Go back to [[Pinecil|Pinecil article]].
 
 
[[Category:Pinecil]]

Latest revision as of 20:04, 4 June 2023

This article is about compatible power supplies for the Pinecil.

Power Options for Pinecil

Overview

  1. Using a power supply that is at the higher end of the Voltage/Amps requirements will give faster heating and performance.
  2. Any USB-C power supply that supports PD (Power Delivery) and has at least the minimum Volt/amps listed should work. The USB-C PD65W, 3.25A, 20V is recommended, but a lower PD45W will also work on V1.
  3. Also, any quality "center positive" DC barrel 12-21V battery or power supply using a DC 5525 jack (5.5mm outer diameter, 2.5mm post) see Video on center-positive polarity. It is sometimes better to get a pre-used name brand laptop brick Dell/Lenovo/HP etc., over a cheap brick which could have voltage spikes that damage the Pinecil or other electronics.
  4. V2 can handle a DC barrel supply up to 24V without modifying the PCB (always check polarity, must be a center-positive jack).
  5. Any typical tool battery 18V-21V will work, see the tool battery section for details.
  6. QC3.0 phone chargers: not recommended, it is weaker in power and does not auto-negotiate like USB-C PD does. QC3 requires manually setting the voltage in the Power settings. A minimum of 3 amps is needed and many QC phone chargers are only able to provide a low 12V 1.5amp, limiting Pinecil to about 17W of thermal capability which is weak and slow. It may not even start to heat, but if it does, it may get repeated Thermal Runaway message (this means the weak power causes Pinecil to auto-shutdown continuously).
  7. QC is more problematic for V2 which comes with the Pine64 designed shorter 6.2 ohm resistance tip. This means the V2 needs more power than the V1. Switching to the longer traditional ts100 style tip in V2 would reduce the power requirement a little, but then you lose a small amount of heat speed/performance.
  8. Magnetic USB-C cables with removeable connectors are not recommended, and are not USB-IF compliant.

Troubleshooting QC chargers

  1. older QC2.0 chargers are not supported in IronOS firmware (only QC3.0 and PD type).
  2. Some QC power adapters only allow a limited time for QC negotiation, otherwise voltage will fall back to 5V. To address this, starting from firmware v2.16+, there is a PD timeout setting (in 100ms steps) which allows QC negotiation to start earlier. Change this only if you are having issues with your QC charger (lower the PD timeout to see if that will help QC charger work). (Power Settings > PD timeout)
  3. This enables some QC adapters to work (i.e., some Baseus QC chargers). Alternately, lowering the number may result in problems with PD negotiation on some PD type adapters that are slower to negotiate. If you switch between QC & PD adapters, you may have to change this setting.
  4. For certain QC adapters, lowering the PD timeout value to 15 could help, and most PD adapters will also still work using 15. If a PD charger does not work at 15, then increase the timeout (PD default is 20 = 20x 100ms = 2 seconds).
  5. Note that some QC chargers simply will not work, are too weak, or cheaply made (PD USB-C chargers are recommended over QC only type)

How to Test if my charger will work?

As long as you do the following you should be fine:

  1. Don't plug in something that is higher voltage than the official ratings for V1 (21v limit) or V2 (24V limit).
  2. If using a DC barrel charger, check the Polarity first, it must be center positive (see Video)
  3. Use a known good quality cable that will not short. There are low cost $3 cable testers that test for shorts.
  4. If the Pinecil heats up very slowly or gets Thermal Runaway message, then the charger is too weak, get something else.
  5. Phone chargers are too weak, most are only 12V 1.5 amps which is too low and prevent proper Pinecil operation.
  6. QC 2.0 not supported by IronOS firmware (only QC 3.0 and PD type).
  7. most PC & laptop ports don't work as they are only 5V which is good enough for simple Firmware updates but not to provide the constant higher power a "resistance" type of soldering Iron needs to maintain heat.
  8. Check the specs on your laptop/PC ports and charger ports, most of the time when it doesn't work, it's because the rating is very low on it and not designed to power an Iron (check specified Watts, Volts, Amps on the port and see if they meet the minimum needed by Pinecil).

Cables, Chargers, Batteries

This is a very small list compared to all the possible chargers that work, and new chargers come on the market all the time.

USB-C Cables

  • Silicone USB-C cables are recommended if possible, they are more flexible and heat resistance. They do not melt or smoke if touched briefly with an iron compared with most other cords.
  • These work with USB-C 20V chargers and have been tested with Pinecil.
  • EPR PD 3.1 USB-C cables (240W, 48V, 5A), needed for 28V, 140W PD3.1 chargers. Backwards compatible for all lower USB-C devices/chargers.
  • USB-C to C cables have two important ratings: one rating is for the power, e.g. 240w/48V/5amps (PD 3.1) and the other rating is not related to power at all and refers to data speed for data transfer (USB4.0 or USB2.0). Faster USB4 is 40G and slower USB2 is 480 mb/s = 0.48G. Pinecil does not need high data speed which is more useful for data transfer between devices or quality laptop to monitor connections. The lower USB2 (480mb/s) is enough for Pinecil Firmware updates (all USB-C to C cables typically come with at least minimum USB2 = 480mb/s data speed). Higher data speed cables work great for firmware updates, but will be a thicker cable which may make soldering and hand movement a little harder. There is a noticeable difference in the thickness of cables due to the extra wires and specs for 20G or 40G type cables.

USB-C Charger

Should I get a GaN type Charger?

  • Sure, if there are two PD65 20V chargers that are similar in price, and one is GaN, this is generally a good choice.
  • Older style chargers could become dangerously hot, whereas GaN can stay cooler, even in a smaller size.
  • If the GaN charger senses a potentially dangerous condition, i.e., overcurrent spikes, the chips are designed to go into a cycle-by-cycle sleep state, protecting the device. Over current protection in GAN.
  • The PinePower Portable PD65 is GAN II (2nd generation GaN).
  • Will Pinecil work with regular USB-C PD 65w 20V-3.25A chargers also? Yes, as long as it supports PD (power delivery protocol).

EPR PD3.1, 140W Chargers

  1. Voltme 140W, 28V max
  2. Rocoren 140W, 28V max
  3. Apple 140W 28V
  4. Anker 737 Power Bank (only EPR battery on the market presently).
Note: a PD3.1 240W cable needs to be purchased if you want the full 28V performance. EPR PD3.1 chargers are backwards compatible and work for all USB-C devices. They do up to 28V on PD3.1 devices,e.g, Pinecil V2, and will do 20V and less for older USB-C devices that don't need as much power. Lower cables will also work but then the charger will only deliver a max of 20V.

PD3.0 65w 20V Chargers

USB C PD shared watts charger.jpg
  1. PD120w PinePower Desktop w/Grounded 3-pin plug
  2. PD65w GAN II Pinepower Portable Travel charger (PD@20V)
  3. Cirtek 65W charger 3-port
  4. 65W 3-port charger
  5. EfaithFix PD65W, 3-port
  6. Ultra-thin Portable PD65w
    • small flat, full 20V PD65W charger, works well with Pinecil
    • it may not as durable as bigger chargers as it has no thick insulation around it.
  7. HTC PD65W, 3-port black
  8. HTC PD65W, 3-port, white
  9. Amazon Basics 65W One-Port GaN USB-C PD 3.0

Battery Power bank

  1. Anker 737 28V-140W EPR (must use EPR-PD 3.1 240W cable if you want the full 28V, otherwise it will provide a lower PD20V)
  2. Blitzwolf BW-P1 10400mAh QC2
  3. Insignia 80W 26,800mAh NS-PWLB80
  4. Intenso 7332330 Powerbank PD 10000 - External Battery PowerDelivery & QuickCharge3 - 10000mAh Powerbank, the Pinecil shows 12V and about 17W when heating up, using USB C PD (Red Silicone Pinecil cable)
  5. Marbero M87 30W PD 3.0
  6. Charmast C2032 65W Power Bank, maximum power at 20V is only available from the IN/OUT USB-C port, the OUT USB-C port delivers only 12V.
  7. Baseus BiPow 10000mAh 18W PD&QC3.0
  8. INIU Power Bank 65 W 25000 mAh - Make sure to use the 65W port

DC Barrel Power

Check the polarity of the DC Barrel plug before plugging in a random charger or it could break the Pinecil.

AC adaptor polarity.png

Nintendo-center-negative.png

DC Laptop Brick

  1. Generally a center-positive laptop charger with more than 3 Amps and 19V-24V will work on Pinecil V2 (video to check polarity). Plugging in a DC barrel charger with the wrong polarity symbol on the back will break the Pinecil.
  2. Avoid Universal power supplies and cheap off-brand ones with low quality control. <tl_lim> said "try to avoid such universal power ...The output contains sharp voltage spike and can kill the Pinecil. There are already several cases reported by support team that Pinecils are damaged by such power supply."
  3. Read the 2 answers in this link that give an idea of why using cheap DC power supplies could damage electronics due to switching noise/voltage spikes. Cheap DC bricks don't have all the extra protections needed, go through little quality control, and most have no certification stamps related to industry testing.
  4. DC5525 barrel plug will plug in directly (5.5mmm x 2.5mm) but if you have a different plug, there are many adapters to convert it to 5.5mm, 2.5mm (don't force a different plug into Pinecil, it will Break the barrel port), and possibly push back and break the positive pin connection inside Pinecil where the DC barrel attaches to the PCB.
  5. DC barrel 24V is supported on V2 (most V1 can only do a max of 21V unless a modification is performed to cut the trace to the Vbus and enable 24V safely (see Ralim's IronOS DebugMenu for details)
  6. It is recommended to use a quality brand DC barrel charger. Often a used name-brand laptop charger (Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc..) that gets some QC testing is a better option than a no-name cheap DC barrel charger. The cheap ones might have large voltage spikes that are out of the 21V range for Pinecil V1 and 24V range of Pinecil V2 causing the Mosfet and Buck regulator to break.
    • These two parts are low cost and not too hard to replace if your Pinecil breaks from a poor quality DC charger (see Datasheets section of the Wiki for links to get replacement chips]].
    • Members have experienced broken Pinecils after using low quality off-brand DC barrel chargers and had to replace both the Mosfet and Buck Converter. Sometimes it's just one part, but it's best to order a couple of both as they are usually under $0.35 each.

Tool Batteries 18V-21V

Power-Wheels adapter link with Ryobi battery
  • Easy way: just get a Power Wheels adapter. They are made for different tool brands and get a DC5525 Pigtail wire.
  • DC5525 pigtail (keep the XT60 connector or cut it off)
  • Get a Power Wheels Adapter like this for Ryobi, then splice/connect it to a DC5525 Pigtail to complete connection to Pinecil.
  • If you use a random DC barrel charger, first Check the Polarity of the plug to make sure it is Center Positive before using it. (how to check polarity). Using reverse polarity DC plug will destroy the Pinecil.
  • To prevent battery overdrain, add this Pinecil setting which works for all the 18-21V tool batteries typical for Dewalt, etc.. Some tool brands have the overdrain protection already; it doesn't hurt to also set this in Pinecil or in case you don't know if your brand/type has it or not. Power source = 5S, Minimum Voltage = 3.3V
  • Hint: only if you change to a different size battery do you need to alter this. If you only ever switch between a USB-C charger and the tool battery, you could just leave the 5S/3.3V setting. Overdrain means using the battery past the point where you can charge it again. Many tool batteries have internal protection to prevents this, but some brands don't have it (unfortunately, unlike most brands, Dewalt puts it into the tool & not the battery). Setting it in Pinecil is an extra safety setting in case you are not sure and want to preserve batteries.

Limited usability:

  • Nintendo Switch AC Adapter USB-C (PD@15V). Does not work well on V2 (needs 3+amps). Works on V1, but slower heat speed because it's low amps and only 15V. Not all Nintendo brand chargers are USB-C type. Some have a DC barrel plug with an incorrect center pin positive, see notes/photo above for checking any DC barrel power supply before plugging it into Pinecil. Reverse polarity chargers will break electronics as they were made to only be used with specific equipment they were sold with. This is one added danger of using unknown/untested DC barrel jack charger over a USB-C charger.
  • Notebook Docking Station HP Thunderbolt Dock 230W G2 (PD@20V) (had problems with lower firmware versions, but works fine Pinecil firmware: 2.15 and DockingStation firmware: 1.0.69.1)
  • Smartphone Charger Samsung EP-TA20EWE (QC2@9V)
  • Smartphone Charger Google Pixel G1000-US (PD@9V)
  • Notebook AC Adapter Delta Electronics ADP-65JH BB (DC@19V) and ADP-90CD DB (1.7x 4.8mm need adapter, tip is not DC5525)
  • Notebook AC Adapter LITEON PA-1700-02 (DC@18.5V, 65W) (tip is 1.7mmx5.5mm would need adapter for DC5525)
  • Nillkin 63W USB Car Charger Quick Charge 3.0 PD (Pinecil Firmware: 2.14.2425902)
    • QC3@9V/12V and PD@15V work, PD@20V doesn't
    • PD@20V works fine when using PDC004-20V or ZY12PDN on dc jack (DC@20V, limit: 45W)

Not compatible

  • Zendure Power bank like this one does not work. It does not appear to be USB-C PD 3.0 compliant. Only the USB-A port seems to work at lower QC voltage. It does not deliver USB-C 20V-5amps or USB-C 20V -3amps.
  • Smartphone Charger RAVpower 30W Dual USB Turbo Wall Charger (Should provide QC3@9V/12V, but only provides 5 V on both ports)
  • Sabrent HB-B7C3 USB3 hub, 7 data ports, 3 charge ports, 60W supply -- does not negotiate higher voltages.

Go back to Pinecil article

Go back to Pinecil article.